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Thread: not intelligent RGB LED m6's

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    Default not intelligent RGB LED m6's

    newbie with rgb needing some help.

    looking to add some RGB lights to my setup next year. What i'm really after is the non intelligent RGBs in the m6 style bulb or something similar as well as the strips. I don't need to control each light individual just the entire strand for some mini trees as well as outline of the house. Been trying to do some research online for best deals and bulbs that are reliable. If anyone is using any and had good luck where did you get them from? links would be greatly appreciated and videos would be even better. Also on the RGB's that you cant control individual pixel but the entire strand is it just red green blue or does it allow you to switch color in between like purple and white? from the videos i see you can switch between all colors so how is this programed with light o rama? any links where i can read up on this would be great!

    Thanks

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    Senior Member mpurser's Avatar
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    Default Re: not intelligent RGB LED m6's

    while you can dim and cut power off and no to leds with the sandard lor controlers you can not change colors with one the only controlers lor has that do this are the ccr and ccb controlers you will have to look at dmx controlers or something like a sandevices 682 for that first off id advise you to read all you can about rgb if i was at home i post a link for a book fasteddie has written on rgb lighting its a free download from the australian christmas site you will have to join that site as a member to down load it the site is on the right hand side of cc homepage
    are you sure we checked every pixel?The Home of North Carolina's Largest tomato cage pixel tree.http://www.thelightsonpurserroad.com

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    Default Re: not intelligent RGB LED m6's

    no problem. when you get a chance if you can post a link it would be helpful. I'm at work myself so cant do a ton of reading at the moment anyways. thanks again for the help

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    Professional Net Lurker Jack Stevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: not intelligent RGB LED m6's

    You can use the LOR DC board to control the RBG strips. A bit expensive, but it can be done. Any DC control board can do it; just watch your current ratings.

    A 16 channel DC board would let you control 5 strips and leave one channel left as a spare. Each RGB strip requries 3 channels, one each for red, green, and blue.

    Once you have the 3 channels under control, you have your 3 primary colors and can do color mixing to get any color you want. I did a quick google search for "RGB LED COLOR MIXING CHART" and came up with The Other RGB Color Chart This gives you DMX values of 0-255 for each color.

    Keep in mind that is not an exact science. Your color results wil vary depending on how close the individual LEDs are inside the package and their relative intensities, so that link is just a starting point.

    Divide each of the fields by 255 to get a 0-to-100 mix. It will work with the LOR CCR. Tedious, but it will work.

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    Senior Member mpurser's Avatar
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    Default Re: not intelligent RGB LED m6's

    thanks jack i forgot about the dc stuff what you do not have is the furthest from the mind eddie comes on cc at times when it comes to pixels the aussies are light year ahead of us in the us heres eddies linkhttp://auschristmaslighting.com/foru...ic,1889.0.html
    are you sure we checked every pixel?The Home of North Carolina's Largest tomato cage pixel tree.http://www.thelightsonpurserroad.com

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    Default Re: not intelligent RGB LED m6's

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Stevens View Post
    You can use the LOR DC board to control the RBG strips. A bit expensive, but it can be done. Any DC control board can do it; just watch your current ratings.

    A 16 channel DC board would let you control 5 strips and leave one channel left as a spare. Each RGB strip requries 3 channels, one each for red, green, and blue.

    Once you have the 3 channels under control, you have your 3 primary colors and can do color mixing to get any color you want. I did a quick google search for "RGB LED COLOR MIXING CHART" and came up with The Other RGB Color Chart This gives you DMX values of 0-255 for each color.

    Keep in mind that is not an exact science. Your color results wil vary depending on how close the individual LEDs are inside the package and their relative intensities, so that link is just a starting point.

    Divide each of the fields by 255 to get a 0-to-100 mix. It will work with the LOR CCR. Tedious, but it will work.


    checked out the link for the colors... looks helpful but a tad confused. would you not device each number by 2.55?

    for example midnight blue gives 25,25,112 so if on a 100 percent scale it would be
    10,10,45

    112 is a tad less then half of 255 so i'm guessing the 45 would be correct in being a bit less then 50%

    do have me a sample pack of different rgb lights and 2 controllers and a dc power supply so i can start to play with this and learn for next years project. i can already see programming this will be some fun in LOR

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    Default Re: not intelligent RGB LED m6's

    Quote Originally Posted by mrlightmadness View Post
    checked out the link for the colors... looks helpful but a tad confused. would you not device each number by 2.55?

    for example midnight blue gives 25,25,112 so if on a 100 percent scale it would be
    10,10,45

    112 is a tad less then half of 255 so i'm guessing the 45 would be correct in being a bit less then 50%

    do have me a sample pack of different rgb lights and 2 controllers and a dc power supply so i can start to play with this and learn for next years project. i can already see programming this will be some fun in LOR
    OK, that chart gives you an 8 bit value for intensity of light; 0-255 or 2^8. To change that to a 0-100 range, it would be the same as changing it to a percentage; divide the 0 to 255 number by 255 to get its equivalent as a percentage or a 0-100 number.

    So......112 in the 0-255 scale would be 112/255 in the 0-100 scale, or 43.9 (44)

    Did I confuse you further, or clarify it?

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    Default Re: not intelligent RGB LED m6's

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Stevens View Post
    OK, that chart gives you an 8 bit value for intensity of light; 0-255 or 2^8. To change that to a 0-100 range, it would be the same as changing it to a percentage; divide the 0 to 255 number by 255 to get its equivalent as a percentage or a 0-100 number.

    So......112 in the 0-255 scale would be 112/255 in the 0-100 scale, or 43.9 (44)

    Did I confuse you further, or clarify it?
    that actually helps. both come out with the same answer but yours is a bit more accurate. actually yours is a better way of figuring it out mine just gets you close.

    thats my way of not admitting i'm wrong. lol

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    Default Re: not intelligent RGB LED m6's

    Quote Originally Posted by mrlightmadness View Post
    that actually helps. both come out with the same answer but yours is a bit more accurate. actually yours is a better way of figuring it out mine just gets you close.

    thats my way of not admitting i'm wrong. lol
    You weren't wrong, you were just guesstimating, and fairly close.

    I had to ponder it a bit myself, then realized I was doing that method an hour or two earlier, calculating percnetages of IP blocks used/IP blocks allocated to us for an ARIN report. It just so happens that the LOR (and other software) controls are based on a scale of 0 to 100, which means it's the same as percentage.

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    Default Re: not intelligent RGB LED m6's

    so here goes another question.... i've been checking out the strips along with power supply and controllers. looking at these suppliers

    from ray at aliexpress

    Aliexpress.com : Buy 5m led digital strip,DC12V input,WS2811IC(256 scale);10pcs IC and 30pcs 5050 SMD RGB each meter;waterproof from Reliable led dream color strip suppliers on Ray wu's store

    Aliexpress.com : Buy 12V/3.7A/45W waterproof power supply;AC11V/220V input;CE approved from Reliable power supply suppliers on Ray wu's store

    Promotion!!! DMX 512 Module & decoder;DC12V input;P/N:LN DMXMODEL 3CH 12V-in RGB Controlers from Lights & Lighting on Aliexpress.com


    or holiday coro
    RGB LED Strip 12v 30 LEDs per Meter Waterproof

    Power Supply - Waterproof 12v / 3.75 amps / 45 Watts

    >> 3 Channel DMX Controller RGB LED Lights / 12v DC / 6 Amps <<

    my concern is the ones from ray are rated at 3.2amps of current for the entire 5 meter. the one from holiday is 1.762 amps for all white which i'd assume would pull the most power. ray's is cheaper overall even with shipping but is the 3.2amps going to pull to much power from the power supply i selected which is 3.7amps which puts me right at that 85% mark.

    I was originally hoping to do power supply per strip that i do just to get started and send the power of the cat5 cable. Do you see any problems with this and how much current drop are we talking over lets say a 25ft, 50ft or even a 75ft cat5 cable. I like to keep my controllers inside and dry to prevent any theft issue.

    ok never mind the idea about using the idea about using the strip from RAY as they are 2811 which means more pixel control so the controller i was thinking about wouldnt work. Tho why is the 2811 so cheap. I would think dumb strips would be cheaper as far as cost. I need to learn to program and use the dumb strips before i get into pixels. Got to learn to walk before I run. Or start in the shallow end of the pool before jumping in the deep end!
    Last edited by mrlightmadness; 12-15-2012 at 12:21 AM.

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    Default Re: not intelligent RGB LED m6's

    Quote Originally Posted by mrlightmadness View Post
    so here goes another question.... i've been checking out the strips along with power supply and controllers. looking at these suppliers

    from ray at aliexpress

    Aliexpress.com : Buy 5m led digital strip,DC12V input,WS2811IC(256 scale);10pcs IC and 30pcs 5050 SMD RGB each meter;waterproof from Reliable led dream color strip suppliers on Ray wu's store

    Aliexpress.com : Buy 12V/3.7A/45W waterproof power supply;AC11V/220V input;CE approved from Reliable power supply suppliers on Ray wu's store

    Promotion!!! DMX 512 Module & decoder;DC12V input;P/N:LN DMXMODEL 3CH 12V-in RGB Controlers from Lights & Lighting on Aliexpress.com


    or holiday coro
    RGB LED Strip 12v 30 LEDs per Meter Waterproof

    Power Supply - Waterproof 12v / 3.75 amps / 45 Watts

    >> 3 Channel DMX Controller RGB LED Lights / 12v DC / 6 Amps <<

    my concern is the ones from ray are rated at 3.2amps of current for the entire 5 meter. the one from holiday is 1.762 amps for all white which i'd assume would pull the most power. ray's is cheaper overall even with shipping but is the 3.2amps going to pull to much power from the power supply i selected which is 3.7amps which puts me right at that 85% mark.

    I was originally hoping to do power supply per strip that i do just to get started and send the power of the cat5 cable. Do you see any problems with this and how much current drop are we talking over lets say a 25ft, 50ft or even a 75ft cat5 cable. I like to keep my controllers inside and dry to prevent any theft issue.

    ok never mind the idea about using the idea about using the strip from RAY as they are 2811 which means more pixel control so the controller i was thinking about wouldnt work. Tho why is the 2811 so cheap. I would think dumb strips would be cheaper as far as cost. I need to learn to program and use the dumb strips before i get into pixels. Got to learn to walk before I run. Or start in the shallow end of the pool before jumping in the deep end!
    I'll give my answer; I don't know; no practical experience. For that, I'll defer to @kidcole, @Al in Raleigh, and @mschell. Putting the "@" sings in front of their screen names will notify them to come read this.

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    Default Re: not intelligent RGB LED m6's

    We've had a number of discussions regarding conflicting stats for 5050 RGBs. We think many of them are in error. The loads given on the HOliday Coro sight appear to be on the low side. @Fasteddy has priveded some very good engineering data for planning 5050s:

    Current loads for 5050 strips from China

    Post #4 gives a very good summary. I always follow these stats for planning power, and I always add 20% (or more) for power supply headroom. You should never plan to load a power supply close to its limits .. particularly the low cost ones from China.

    I decided to use the higher quality waterproof 4-pin connectors for all my RGB devices, so I never spent any time figure out the loads that are possible with Cat-5 cable. And I prefer to use 18ga audio cable. There are posts here that deal with the load possibilities of cat-5. You can also pair up the wires for more load handling. Be sure to use a good electrical lubricant spray if you are going to have Cat-5 connectors outside in the elements.
    Thanks,

    Denny Cole
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/Cole...ristmasLights/

    Back to Work <unretired> so I went Static in 2017. Planning xLights when I retire <again>. Maybe 2019 ?

    Falcon - 3 F16V3 & 1 PiCap, Sandevices - 2 E681 & 4 E6804, 288 Channels Lynx Express, 108 Channels DC DMX,
    10' Pixel MegaTree, CoroFlakes w/Pixel Modules, Pixel RBLs, 2 Pixel Matrix 16x25, 10" RGB Ornaments, 7x230 Pixel Icicle Matrix,
    Classic 20' AC Megatree, TIR Destiny RGB Spots, RGB Blowmolds, Wireframes, and Inflatables with External Light Control

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    Default Re: not intelligent RGB LED m6's

    thanks for the advice. I've been looking at Cat-5 cable over and over and something about running power through it when i'm not at home just wasnt sitting well with me. I would like to come home and still see my house standing! not sure what 18 guage wire you are using but thinking this would be a great solution.

    For only $16.94 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 100ft 18AWG CL2 Rated 4-Conductor Loud Speaker Cable (For In-Wall Installation) | 18AWG Loud Speaker Cables

    run my power output to my 3 channel controller then out from the controller to the 4wire that i linked above then to the lights.

    so

    >> 3 Channel DMX Controller RGB LED Lights / 12v DC / 6 Amps (Version 1) << or something simular
    Power Supply - Waterproof 12v / 3.75 amps / 45 Watts or something simular

    then

    Aliexpress.com : Buy 5m flexible LED Strip;5050 SMD;30LEDs/m, waterproof by epoxy coating; RGB color;DC12V input;cheaper one from Reliable led strip suppliers on Ray wu's store

    any reason this wouldn't work. My idea is still to have the controller and the power supply in the garage and then run the 4 wire 18 gauge from the garage to the lights outside. My longest run would be about 75ft.

    BUT

    Looking at this there is no real reason to run individual power supplies. Would be better off getting one or 2 big power supply to run the multiple dumb strips and multiple dum rgb lights. I see a big savings in $$ this way. was looking for a controller that can control either 9 or 18 rgb strips. when pricing these i'm not seeing much advantage of going with these over the individual 3 channel controllers. the prices are coming out about the same. if one of the 9 or 18 strip channel controllers (27 or 54 individual channels) go out i've lost a lot of the show. If i stick with all 3 channel controllers if one goes out would be easy to pull that one out and put in another one. am i missing something?

    back to the drawling board. guess i need to start looking at bigger power supply's and keep digging for controllers.

    kidcole what power supply and controllers are you using

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    Havin fun ! kidcole's Avatar
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    Default Re: not intelligent RGB LED m6's

    Quote Originally Posted by mrlightmadness View Post
    thanks for the advice. I've been looking at Cat-5 cable over and over and something about running power through it when i'm not at home just wasnt sitting well with me. I would like to come home and still see my house standing! not sure what 18 guage wire you are using but thinking this would be a great solution.

    For only $16.94 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 100ft 18AWG CL2 Rated 4-Conductor Loud Speaker Cable (For In-Wall Installation) | 18AWG Loud Speaker Cables

    run my power output to my 3 channel controller then out from the controller to the 4wire that i linked above then to the lights.

    so

    >> 3 Channel DMX Controller RGB LED Lights / 12v DC / 6 Amps (Version 1) << or something simular
    Power Supply - Waterproof 12v / 3.75 amps / 45 Watts or something simular

    then

    Aliexpress.com : Buy 5m flexible LED Strip;5050 SMD;30LEDs/m, waterproof by epoxy coating; RGB color;DC12V input;cheaper one from Reliable led strip suppliers on Ray wu's store

    any reason this wouldn't work. My idea is still to have the controller and the power supply in the garage and then run the 4 wire 18 gauge from the garage to the lights outside. My longest run would be about 75ft.

    BUT

    Looking at this there is no real reason to run individual power supplies. Would be better off getting one or 2 big power supply to run the multiple dumb strips and multiple dum rgb lights. I see a big savings in $$ this way. was looking for a controller that can control either 9 or 18 rgb strips. when pricing these i'm not seeing much advantage of going with these over the individual 3 channel controllers. the prices are coming out about the same. if one of the 9 or 18 strip channel controllers (27 or 54 individual channels) go out i've lost a lot of the show. If i stick with all 3 channel controllers if one goes out would be easy to pull that one out and put in another one. am i missing something?

    back to the drawling board. guess i need to start looking at bigger power supply's and keep digging for controllers.

    kidcole what power supply and controllers are you using
    I hope we can sit down to discuss this sometime. You have a lot of running topics here. But my first comments are:

    I am using the exact same wire from Monoprice. The 250 ft price is fantastic. They had a fixed price shipping sale about 6 months ago and I saved there too. For this wire I use Red, Greem and Black for RGB... and White for Common. Once you start wiring up different connectors, wire, strips and strings, you MUST write down your wiring standard for each thing you do. There are differences in wiring standards between some of us here. But you must have a standard for yourself, particularly if someone buys something you made one day.

    Regarding Controlers - I like the littel 3 channel controllers but I also learned this year that I wanted to centralize all the controllers for a particular effect into a single case. I mostly use the CG1500 cases but I also used a CG2000 for some. I ended up putting all the three channel controllers into one box with larger power supplies. Most of my boxes have single 100 watt 12v power supplies in the case. One effect has a 150 watt and my RGB blowmolds use TWO 100W. It was WAY too much wiring work to hook up all the power and DMX from all 8 3-channel controllers in each box. From now on I would recommend using the China 27 channel. It's simple and quick. I have not compared to see if it has the same power handling as 12V tho. And I have not used one tho. But I really prefer having the power and control in one box and dedicated wiring to each effect or strip.

    Here's the one I used most. They have many sizes in this series:

    http://www.aliexpress.com/store/prod...340445759.html

    As for your strips, the epoxy coated ones are not waterproof enough to have outside. I used those for inside my blowmolds, except mine are the 60 LEDs per meter. I am also going to upgrade my Mighty Mini Spots to using RGB strips instead of their original LED boards. In both cases the strips are protected enough should a minor amount of moisture get in. There are two levels of waterproofing that are much better than those strips. I think your strips are called IP66. Then then IP67 has the strip inside a rectangular clear holder, with the strip sitting loose inside. The CCRs are this kind. It costs a bit more money but worth it. AND IP67 (CCrs) are not entirely waterproof. People on various Christmas websites are reporting leaks in their CCRs. The one I like best is called IP68. There is a clear gel that is injected into the clear holder. You cannot see it because they have a may to get it in with little to no air bubbles. We needed some special strips this year with 17 pixels in each (3 LEDs per pixel, same as a CCR) .. and we had them made IP68. They are awesome. There is one downside tho. When I met with Al the other day, he said he had quite a bit of fallout with his IP68 strips. And with the gel inside they are not likely repairable. He did order some spares but he had more than he planned fall out .. so his effect plans had to be adjusted. I am bringing this up to point out that with custom orders, particularly pixels, it's a good idea to get them as early in the year as possible so they can be run and tested. Ray Wu is very good about replacing anything bad but he does need enough time to make them for you. I'll bring my RGB tree to the first TASL next year. It will be one of the weeknight meetings. I'll probably bring it to one of the Saturday meetings also.

    Here are some from Ray's site but I can't tell if they are the gel filled. I think they are. These are the 60 LEDs per meter and you can find them in 30 LEDs per meter. These have the cover like the CCRs, but are probably also gel filled (which is better than CCRs).

    http://www.aliexpress.com/store/prod...654720379.html
    Last edited by kidcole; 12-16-2012 at 04:49 PM.
    Thanks,

    Denny Cole
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/Cole...ristmasLights/

    Back to Work <unretired> so I went Static in 2017. Planning xLights when I retire <again>. Maybe 2019 ?

    Falcon - 3 F16V3 & 1 PiCap, Sandevices - 2 E681 & 4 E6804, 288 Channels Lynx Express, 108 Channels DC DMX,
    10' Pixel MegaTree, CoroFlakes w/Pixel Modules, Pixel RBLs, 2 Pixel Matrix 16x25, 10" RGB Ornaments, 7x230 Pixel Icicle Matrix,
    Classic 20' AC Megatree, TIR Destiny RGB Spots, RGB Blowmolds, Wireframes, and Inflatables with External Light Control

  15. #15
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    Default Re: not intelligent RGB LED m6's

    Quote Originally Posted by kidcole View Post
    I hope we can sit down to discuss this sometime. You have a lot of running topics here. But my first comments are:

    I am using the exact same wire from Monoprice. The 250 ft price is fantastic. They had a fixed price shipping sale about 6 months ago and I saved there too. For this wire I use Red, Greem and Black for RGB... and White for Common. Once you start wiring up different connectors, wire, strips and strings, you MUST write down your wiring standard for each thing you do. There are differences in wiring standards between some of us here. But you must have a standard for yourself, particularly if someone buys something you made one day.

    Regarding Controlers - I like the littel 3 channel controllers but I also learned this year that I wanted to centralize all the controllers for a particular effect into a single case. I mostly use the CG1500 cases but I also used a CG2000 for some. I ended up putting all the three channel controllers into one box with larger power supplies. Most of my boxes have single 100 watt 12v power supplies in the case. One effect has a 150 watt and my RGB blowmolds use TWO 100W. It was WAY too much wiring work to hook up all the power and DMX from all 8 3-channel controllers in each box. From now on I would recommend using the China 27 channel. It's simple and quick. I have not compared to see if it has the same power handling as 12V tho. And I have not used one tho. But I really prefer having the power and control in one box and dedicated wiring to each effect or strip.

    Here's the one I used most. They have many sizes in this series:

    Aliexpress.com : Buy 12V/8.5A/100W waterproof power supply;AC110/220V input;CE approved from Reliable power supply suppliers on Ray wu's store

    As for your strips, the epoxy coated ones are not waterproof enough to have outside. I used those for inside my blowmolds, except mine are the 60 LEDs per meter. I am also going to upgrade my Mighty Mini Spots to using RGB strips instead of their original LED boards. In both cases the strips are protected enough should a minor amount of moisture get in. There are two levels of waterproofing that are much better than those strips. I think your strips are called IP66. Then then IP67 has the strip inside a rectangular clear holder, with the strip sitting loose inside. The CCRs are this kind. It costs a bit more money but worth it. AND IP67 (CCrs) are not entirely waterproof. People on various Christmas websites are reporting leaks in their CCRs. The one I like best is called IP68. There is a clear gel that is injected into the clear holder. You cannot see it because they have a may to get it in with little to no air bubbles. We needed some special strips this year with 17 pixels in each (3 LEDs per pixel, same as a CCR) .. and we had them made IP68. They are awesome. There is one downside tho. When I met with Al the other day, he said he had quite a bit of fallout with his IP68 strips. And with the gel inside they are not likely repairable. He did order some spares but he had more than he planned fall out .. so his effect plans had to be adjusted. I am bringing this up to point out that with custom orders, particularly pixels, it's a good idea to get them as early in the year as possible so they can be run and tested. Ray Wu is very good about replacing anything bad but he does need enough time to make them for you. I'll bring my RGB tree to the first TASL next year. It will be one of the weeknight meetings. I'll probably bring it to one of the Saturday meetings also.

    Here are some from Ray's site but I can't tell if they are the gel filled. I think they are. These are the 60 LEDs per meter and you can find them in 30 LEDs per meter. These have the cover like the CCRs, but are probably also gel filled (which is better than CCRs).

    Aliexpress.com : Buy DC12V 5m(one roll) 5050 SMD 60LEDs/m led strip,waterproof by silicon tube,IP68 from Reliable 5050 STRIP suppliers on Ray wu's store
    The 60 LEDs per meter doesnt bother me and the price seems good. but looks like they are 12 watts per meter 72 watts per roll. So at 12 volts that would be a total current draw of 6 amps? Something doesnt seem to add up with my math. If this is the case what controllers are being used to run a 5 meter strip?

    Before i noticed the additional amperage i was looking at
    controller
    Aliexpress.com : Buy Easy DMX LED controller;dmx decoder& driver from Reliable dmx decoder suppliers on Ray wu's store

    power supply
    Aliexpress.com : Buy 12V/20A/250W waterproof power supply;AC110/220V input;CE approved from Reliable power supply suppliers on Ray wu's store

    case
    CG-1500 Demarcation Enclosure - Case of 6 [Keptel] - $68.00 : WLC Ventures

    the problem now comes in with the strips. the ones you show are
    Aliexpress.com : Buy DC12V 5m(one roll) 5050 SMD 60LEDs/m led strip,waterproof by silicon tube,IP68 from Reliable 5050 STRIP suppliers on Ray wu's store
    which has the higher wattage/amps.

    looking at these i'm starting to think this is a misprint on the amperage of 1.762 all white
    RGB LED Strip 12v 30 LEDs per Meter Waterproof

    I haven't seen any strips this long that only pull that little power.
    so if that amperage is correct i'd have to get a controller like
    24 channel dmx constant voltage decoder,DC12 24V input,3A*24channel output;LN DMXTCON 24CH DC12 24V-in RGB Controlers from Lights & Lighting on Aliexpress.com

    with yet a bigger power supply

    appreciate everyone's help so far. still learning a lot but seems the more I learn the more confused i get!

    ps yes going to have to make some of these meetings!!

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