Strobes: CDI vs CLS

[John]

...... Geez, I used to go grab a humidity chamber and run tests of this nature when I worked for The Man. Now I'm a free man and I have to rely on John's refrigerator for scientific tests. That almost sounded like whining but it wasn't.........

Sounds like a guy almost ashamed to admit that he has to rely on John for something, to me!

[Al in Raleigh]

Sounds like a guy almost ashamed to admit that he has to rely on John for something, to me!

Yeah right. I have thousands of people lining up to put CDI strobes in their refrigerators to help me stop the oil leak. BP offered to fly me in a refrigerator, but I didn't want to duplicate efforts.

[wbottomley]

My observations....

CLS Xenon strobe
Pro's: bright, flashes very fast, and nice lens design. Con's: expensive, not weather proof, failure rate high, condensation is a problem, and socket not glued good.

CDI Xenon strobe
Pro's: very rugged, smaller, cheaper, and seems to be weather proof. Con's: slower flash rate but still good but seems a tad dimmer than CLS strobe.

Overall, I'll use CDI's xenon strobes to replace the failing CLS strobes.

Another video will be posted this weekend using them outside.

Here's a comparison of xenon vs LED strobes.

[paulsessel]

Quit whining and buck up John. Yes, the refrigerator would be better. Don't get all I told you so with me. We need to make sure that the strobes are in a moist environment. Maybe put them in a plastic bag with a small container of water. The water will insure the humidity is high enough. Geez, I used to go grab a humidity chamber and run tests of this nature when I worked for The Man. Now I'm a free man and I have to rely on John's refrigerator for scientific tests. That almost sounded like whining but it wasn't. I know whining and the last post was clearly whining.

After looking at the video again, the CDI xenon strobe seems to be housed in the same enclosure as the LED strobe. If so, I would bet Walter's Land Rover that the xenon will not have any problem with condensation. But what do I know, I rely on John's refrigerator for tests. I'm losing my mind.

They are housed in the same enclosure and supposed to be completly water tight.

[wbottomley]

They are housed in the same enclosure and supposed to be completly water tight.

That's what I'm talking about!

Thanks Paul!

[kidcole]

This is great news but I also think the jury is not yet out with the verdict on any of the flash tube type. It is possible that the great extreme in hot and cold temperature changes inside the flash tube version, may still create condensation. I believe this has already been speculated a couple times. And the LED type would probably not generate enough heat to be a problem. I hope I am wrong but it seems possible that just sealing them may not be enough. Among our group, we'll have a nice pile of the new CDI and the old CLS type .. so I'm sure we'll have some new facts one way or the other by next January.

[John]

This is great news but I also think the jury is not yet out with the verdict on any of the flash tube type. It is possible that the great extreme in hot and cold temperature changes inside the flash tube version, may still create condensation. I believe this has already been speculated a couple times. And the LED type would probably not generate enough heat to be a problem. I hope I am wrong but it seems possible that just sealing them may not be enough. Among our group, we'll have a nice pile of the new CDI and the old CLS type .. so I'm sure we'll have some new facts one way or the other by next January.

Denny,

The CLS strobes were hardly sealed at all. That was one of their major problems. Moisture could seep in, and it stayed in ! In fact, Christmas Light Show web site recommended drilling 2 vent holes in each strobe to allow excess accumulated moisture to drain out! Drill 2 holes in the lens if pointed down or two holes in the base if pointed up! (Really required special attention to the strobe inventory since I use them both ways, depending on the display element)

A completely sealed strobe should not care what the outside humidity level is! It cannot suck in moisture from the outside air, regardless of the internal or external temperatures.

Here's my opinion after many years of using the CLS strobes. They were not properly sealed.

Drilled CLS stobes lasted a little longer then the undrilled ones. I have seen the undrilled CLS strobes when pointed down have a 1/2 teaspoon of water sloushing around in the lens. When used pointed up, all that water was soaking the electronics !

Using Paul's SEALED LED strobes last year on the same strings with the CLS ones, for 4th July, Halloween and Christmas displays, I always lost CLS strobes but none of Paul's CDI sealed ones. This was in almost any possible mix of temperatures and humidity conditions over the three display seasons.

In my opinion, it doesn't matter if it is a xenon flash tube or an LED. It is a container that developed unequalized pressures. When the pressure inside the container was lower then the outside pressure, an poorly sealed container would suck in the outside air and moisture. A properly sealed container would not. Maybe not 100% pure scientific fact, but it is what I believe.

Paul Sessel and CDI products ROCK ! My jury foreman has spoken! This is my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Al in Raleigh]

John, Denny is correct. Xenon generates far more intense heat than LEDs (not to mention more light). The heat will cause a vacuum to occur inside the enclosure that will cause humidity laden air to enter the enclosure. Water tight and air tight are different beasts. Until the tests are done, I will not buy anything and will not recommend anything.

Having said that, I am fully convinced the CDI xenon strobes will perform far better than Darryl's crap. If the condensation problem is solved, the initial 10% failure rate has been solved. Not to mention the socket to enclosure failures that infuriated me with the CLS strobes. Junk is junk and paying $6 or $60 is not a consideration. Darryl's strobes are crap. CDI has an opportunity to fully dominate the market if the condensation problem and initial failure rates are better. Darryl should be ashamed to sell us the trash he has sold us. Customer service will never replace quality.

As much as I detest the CLS strobes, I am fully capable of making an educated decision as to an acceptable replacement. Testing will tell.

If somebody sends me a few strobes, I will test them myself. I have 24 years experience in this type of testing.

[John]

I appreciate your wisdom and experience Al, however I stand by my opinion of unequal pressure inside the container theory, weather air or water. A properly sealed container shouldn't care, nothing should get in or out! And the CLS strobes were not properly sealed in my opinion!

HOWEVER, the test has begun! Testing two of the CDI xenon strobes!

One in the refrigerator inside of a small plastic sandwich bag that has about a teaspoon of water in it, tightly zip tied around the cord.

The other one is outside subject to the natural heating and cooling of the air and with a 40 -50 % chance of showers everyday through the Holiday weekend, the humidity levels and temperatures will be constantly changing. low in the mid 40's at night and low 90's during the day.

I plan to run these 24/7 through the weekend. But not sure on the refrigerator test, it will be for a least 12 hours, till around 8 or so tomorrow morning, can't promise beyond that right now. There is a female (also known as an ex-wife) around right now that has taken over the kitchen area, and really has raised an eyebrow when I told her that Al told me to do it! I suspect she is thinking that Al is just another one of my imaginary friends that doesn't really exist! (One of the one's I'm always using as an excuse for something, like when I bought a brand new Cessna airplane a few years ago, and financed it for 5 years)

I'll post an update in the morning before I head off for work as to the flashing status of both of them.

[kidcole]

You guys crack me up ! But..... John, the test sounds great ! Physical evidence tops SWAG any day ! I am going to try a handful of CDI anyhow. From their physical appearance at our TASL meeting, they just seemed like they have a better design. If the flash tube type breaks down over time, then we'll just gravitate to LED. We might need time to tell. I do like the brighter impact of the flash tube type tho...

[John]

After 12 hours, both test strobes are still flashing away !

One outside (weekend thunderstorms now forecast)

One sealed in a plastic bag with water, inside the refrigerator.

[Al in Raleigh]

John, the strobes need time to cool that is when the negative pressure occurs. If possible flash for a minute then cool for several minutes. If possible. Thanks for doing this.

[John]

John, the strobes need time to cool that is when the negative pressure occurs. If possible flash for a minute then cool for several minutes. If possible. Thanks for doing this.

Well gee whiz! Now you give me instructions!

How many heat and cool cycles should I run and for how long (total stress test time) ?


Might have to write a sequence and hook up a couple of controllers to them, to do the one minute followed by xxxx minutes off..

I'm not going to stand there pluggin and unplugging -doing this for hours on end, just to make Al happy! (one upstairs in the refrigerator - the other downstairs by the garage door - a few cycles of running up and down the stairs would kill this old man)

[wbottomley]

John... don't forget to connect the flux capacitor. LOL!

[John]

I have the flux capacitor standing by, just in case, William! Over 24 hours of straight blinking on both of them!

Now I'm just waiting for "Engineer Al" to quit playing with his trains long enough to publish the detailed "TEST PROTOCOL FOR XENON STROBES" that he wants his lowly technician servant to follow. Feel like have already wasted 24 hours of the 96 hours I set aside for testing per his request!

(Personaly, I don't need no stinking test, I bought 'em, I like 'em, and I'll use 'em till they quit. Then throw 'em away, and buy some more, and repeat until the next thing comes along. That's what we did with the CLS strobes for years until Paul's product came along!)