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Thread: Renard SS series of DIY controllers

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    Professional Net Lurker Jack Stevens's Avatar
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    Default Renard SS series of DIY controllers

    I was recently asked about these because I'm using them.

    There is a relatively new version of the Renard line of AC controllers: The Renard SS 8, SS 15, and SS24. The number refers to the number of AC channels the controller has.

    Why Renard? For me, cost per channel; about $3 to $5 per channel, depending on some extraneous costs, such as that of case and cords.

    Please note, these are build-it-yourself boards. You may find someone local willing to build the board for you if you aren't willing to do that yourself. Please factor in that cost.

    Per-channel current rating is 2 amps, or about 4 strings of 100 incandescent mini lights. Total current limit per bank is something like 12 amps, so you won't be able to run all 12 channels in a bank on an SS24 at the full 2 amps each. You can't run full 8 amps per channel on an 8 channel bank on LOR, either.

    For those of you looking for a DC controller, there is the Ren48LSP, a 48 channel DC controller that (from memory) supports .4 amps per channel. That is a different series of boards, although the firmware is the same.

    From the last group buy (first of 2012, there will be more) - outside a group buy there would be no quantity discount from the vendors and costs would be higher:

    2012 Renard SS Group Buy Round 1 {CLOSED}

    _______________________________________

    COST

    Renard SS 8 BOM $26.00
    Renard SS 16 BOM $36.00
    Renard SS 24 BOM $46.00
    Renard Spare Parts Kit BOM $8.50

    Replacement TRIACS BTA06-600CW $0.50ea.

    Renard SS 8 PCB $7.00
    Renard SS 16 PCB $9.00
    Renard SS 24 PCB $12.25

    Renard SS 8 Heat Sink $2.00
    Renard SS 16 Heat Sink $2.00
    Renard SS 24 Heat Sink $2.25

    PayPal Fees: 3% plus $0.30
    _______________________________________

    A "BOM" is Bill of Material, or parts list. The triacs in the original design have been discontinued; the board designer found an alternate that is actually better, so they are being offered as a retrofit for previous boards. The triacs have an isolated tab as a built-in heat sink, so they can all be mounted to a common external heat sink with no fear of electrical shorts.

    I feel the heat sink is mandatory, for several reasons. One is it will let you use the full 2 amps of current sustained (the triac is actually rated for something like 8 amps but the board traces only handle 2) Another is it lines up the triacs cleanly, so they can't get twisted around and short out against something, such as its neighboring triac. It also adds structural strength to the board. And lastly, if you don't install it at the time of building, and want to install it later, you'll probably have to unsolder/resolder the triacs to get them to line up with the holes.

    When James runs a group buy, he labels each part with the corresponding step number from the assembly manual in the DIYC wiki. That is extremely helpful. He must be a masochist to put himself through such torture, but it probably helps him with making sure all the parts are in each participant's purchase.

    More information with links to assembly manuals, data sheet, and firmware (Renard proprietary, diagnostic, and DMX)

    File:Wiki - Renard SS24 Completed Board.jpg - doityourselfchristmas.com
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    This space for rent. Al in Raleigh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Renard SS series of DIY controllers

    And to answer my question from last night, as long as BTA06 triacs are used then the tab on the packaging is isolated from output. However, a BTB06 is electrically identical to BTA06 except the tab is not isolated, and if it is substituted for a BTA06 and the tabs touch, it will go poof. So, use BTA06 triacs like the BOM says.
    Al

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    Havin fun ! kidcole's Avatar
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    Default Re: Renard SS series of DIY controllers

    For the group, these controllers can be configured for DMX mode operation. So you could use the ENTTEC Pro DMX adapter with these, along with all your LOR controllers and S3 software. Turns out there are not many good choices for AC controllers running DMX. There are some DMX units that are considered pretty bad compared with the Renard.

    I'd like to get some reliability and operational feedback on these. I think Mark also has some that he ran along with another Brand that he also liked. But we can't get the guy on the website to send a reply.
    Thanks,

    Denny Cole
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/Cole...ristmasLights/

    Back to Work <unretired> so I went Static in 2017. Planning xLights when I retire <again>. Maybe 2019 ?

    Falcon - 3 F16V3 & 1 PiCap, Sandevices - 2 E681 & 4 E6804, 288 Channels Lynx Express, 108 Channels DC DMX,
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    Professional Net Lurker Jack Stevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Renard SS series of DIY controllers

    Quote Originally Posted by kidcole View Post
    For the group, these controllers can be configured for DMX mode operation. So you could use the ENTTEC Pro DMX adapter with these, along with all your LOR controllers and S3 software. Turns out there are not many good choices for AC controllers running DMX. There are some DMX units that are considered pretty bad compared with the Renard.

    I'd like to get some reliability and operational feedback on these. I think Mark also has some that he ran along with another Brand that he also liked. But we can't get the guy on the website to send a reply.
    I have successfully used these boards with the RPM Entec-Pro compatible DMX dongle and LOR S3. I've seen postings on other forums where the RJ Lynx DMX dongle also works fine with LOR S3. You can also use the LOR dongle with this cavat: the LOR dongle can be used as a DMX dongle but on that network, it will only do DMX. It cannot be used for both DMX protocol and LOR protocol on the same physical network.

    Confused? OK. The LOR S3 software is capable of supporting 16 LOR protocol networks, each of which will support 240 LOR controllers, AND it will support 16 DMX universes, each having up to 512 channels.

    The LOR protocol networks pretty much rquire a LOR dongle. There are some non-LOR dongles compatible, but they present other issues. The DMX universe networks have a setting that allows you to use the LOR dongle, an Entec-compatible dongle, or a Lynx dongle.

    That brings up the statement of "Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do something." Keeping in minnd the limitations of USB, I wouldn't put more than a couple of dongles of either on a single computer; you would probably run into buffering and congestion issues on USB 2.0, definitely would on USB 1.1, and I don't know of any USB 3.0 dongles. There may be, but I don't know of any..

    To set what controller works in what network/universe, in the sequence ditor click on "Edit -> Preferences -> Network Preferences". You will see the setup there. The LOR networks are identified by the comm port as seen in the hardware utility. The DMX Universe setting will read the ID tag off the USB chip in the dongle, and let you select which DMX protocol setting - Raw (LOR dongle), Entec DMX USB (Entec compatible) and Lynx (the Lynx dongle from RJ)

    Once you get that set up to your liking, make sure you export your channel configuration so you can use it in multiple sequences!

    Denny, it's off season; if you want to play with one of my Renard SS controllers in DMX mode (or even in Renard protocol mode) I'll let you borrow one.
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    Havin fun ! kidcole's Avatar
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    Default Re: Renard SS series of DIY controllers

    Thanks for the offer jack. I will consider that once I find some spare time .. It think a pair of those Renard SS 24s would be a great way to expand and get some direct DMX in my network. I SURE hope LOR comes through with E1.31 support. I am planning a couple of those boards too ! I am excited and bit nervous about it. I gotta make sure I allocate the spare time !
    Thanks,

    Denny Cole
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/Cole...ristmasLights/

    Back to Work <unretired> so I went Static in 2017. Planning xLights when I retire <again>. Maybe 2019 ?

    Falcon - 3 F16V3 & 1 PiCap, Sandevices - 2 E681 & 4 E6804, 288 Channels Lynx Express, 108 Channels DC DMX,
    10' Pixel MegaTree, CoroFlakes w/Pixel Modules, Pixel RBLs, 2 Pixel Matrix 16x25, 10" RGB Ornaments, 7x230 Pixel Icicle Matrix,
    Classic 20' AC Megatree, TIR Destiny RGB Spots, RGB Blowmolds, Wireframes, and Inflatables with External Light Control

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    Registered User ggusta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Renard SS series of DIY controllers

    OK, I feel like I am at the 1 yard line with all of this and can't score against a weak defensive line. HELP!!! Steer me out of the danged fog.

    The one thing I am still confused as can be on any of this is how to get the data from the PC to the renard. I found this thread on diyc and when he gets down to rewiring the cables/pins, I am like really? this is actually the easiest way to do this s$%t?? I am sorry but I am baffled on this and again, like the issue i had getting the adjustable preview to display in vixen, I know I am going to feel like an abject fool when I actually look back on it.

    So how do I attach the renard to my pc? And remember, type slowly.

    Serial connection cable for renard boards with rj45 input via computer usb

    File:Wiki - Serial to Renard RJ45 Connection.jpg - doityourselfchristmas.com
    Clayton NC, Gregg Gusta & Son Ben, Was converting to LED lights gave up, went back to incan!! not a single pixel in sight!
    Like us on facebook at https://www.facebook.com/gustafamilychristmas

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    Senior Member mpurser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Renard SS series of DIY controllers

    Greg im not that experienced but i do like saving money the Renard may be cheaper but with my limited eye sight and shaky hands with my m/s i ll stay with lor i find that is cheaper for me to do things once if you get my drift we have enuff to do every year some times it feels like its all i can do to do the simple things i do with props not trying to tell ya what to do just my view and if you ll look at Denys recent problems think of the kiss saying that allways worked best for me
    are you sure we checked every pixel?The Home of North Carolina's Largest tomato cage pixel tree.http://www.thelightsonpurserroad.com

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    Registered User ggusta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Renard SS series of DIY controllers

    Quote Originally Posted by mpurser View Post
    Greg im not that experienced but i do like saving money the Renard may be cheaper but with my limited eye sight and shaky hands with my m/s i ll stay with lor i find that is cheaper for me to do things once if you get my drift we have enuff to do every year some times it feels like its all i can do to do the simple things i do with props not trying to tell ya what to do just my view and if you ll look at Denys recent problems think of the kiss saying that allways worked best for me
    It's very impressive that you still are able to do all you do with the m/s, that's really commendable.

    We're already committed with the renards, and I don't think it's going to be rocket science to cross this hurdle, just maddeningly frustrating when the seemingly simplest task is what stops you from achieving your objective.

    And the weak link is my brain. I am 'very' visual. (and by 'very' I mean '100%')

    You show me how to do this and then I get it. But if you verbally explain how to walk and chew gum with illustrations and charts and graphs and I am like 'Whaaaaa....????'
    Clayton NC, Gregg Gusta & Son Ben, Was converting to LED lights gave up, went back to incan!! not a single pixel in sight!
    Like us on facebook at https://www.facebook.com/gustafamilychristmas

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    Senior Member mpurser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Renard SS series of DIY controllers

    lol ok
    are you sure we checked every pixel?The Home of North Carolina's Largest tomato cage pixel tree.http://www.thelightsonpurserroad.com

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    Registered User Samj435's Avatar
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    Default Re: Renard SS series of DIY controllers

    If you have an SS it should have a standard DB9 on it. You can use this and just a regular serial cable if your first controller is less than 50 feet from the computer. (EASY)

    Most use the rj45 as cat5 cables are much cheaper. Also, if the first controller is futher than 50 feet, you will want to use RS485, and have to use the rj45 jack.

    This is done with either a usb->rs485 serial adapter, or an RS232->RS485 adapter. I prefer the usb variant as most computers are no longer coming with a regular serial connection. The wiring of the pins is just to be able to feed the 485 stream into the renard.
    2014: Lights - 75,000; Channels - 500 Renard AC, 75 Renard DC, 10,000 Pixels; Vixen 3.0

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    Registered User ggusta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Renard SS series of DIY controllers

    Quote Originally Posted by Samj435 View Post
    If you have an SS it should have a standard DB9 on it. You can use this and just a regular serial cable if your first controller is less than 50 feet from the computer. (EASY)

    Most use the rj45 as cat5 cables are much cheaper. Also, if the first controller is futher than 50 feet, you will want to use RS485, and have to use the rj45 jack.

    This is done with either a usb->rs485 serial adapter, or an RS232->RS485 adapter. I prefer the usb variant as most computers are no longer coming with a regular serial connection. The wiring of the pins is just to be able to feed the 485 stream into the renard.
    Let me back up a sec..Here's where I got lost ....I was told by someone that I cannot simply connect with a cat5 on my pc rj45 port to the renard rj45 input. Is that accurate? Because if it isn't that could be the source of some confusion.

    So... I am thinking this.... stop me where I am igno- I mean wrong. Move PC to garage each night (so PC isn't cold which could create a whole separate problem) connect it to renard via a usb-db9 connector (you are correct, we have no serial port on ours) .

    That thread on diyc had me tripping. I am suddenly rewiring pins on a rj45 connector which I am sure for many of you is not very intimidating but frankly I'd rather skip that step at least on year 1. Let's get through year 1 before moving onto the level 200 projects please.
    Clayton NC, Gregg Gusta & Son Ben, Was converting to LED lights gave up, went back to incan!! not a single pixel in sight!
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    Registered User Samj435's Avatar
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    Default Re: Renard SS series of DIY controllers

    Quote Originally Posted by ggusta View Post
    Let me back up a sec..Here's where I got lost ....I was told by someone that I cannot simply connect with a cat5 on my pc rj45 port to the renard rj45 input. Is that accurate? Because if it isn't that could be the source of some confusion.
    This is true. The cable may be the same, but the protocol is completely different. You may even cause harm by connecting them together in that fashion.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggusta View Post
    So... I am thinking this.... stop me where I am igno- I mean wrong. Move PC to garage each night (so PC isn't cold which could create a whole separate problem) connect it to renard via a usb-db9 connector (you are correct, we have no serial port on ours) .
    I would honestly reccomend puttting the PC in a place that doesn't need to be moved. You can if you want, but don't drop it! The cold will most likely not do any harm to the PC. The lighting controllers are technically commputers themselves with microcontrollers and they are outside in the cold all season.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggusta View Post
    That thread on diyc had me tripping. I am suddenly rewiring pins on a rj45 connector which I am sure for many of you is not very intimidating but frankly I'd rather skip that step at least on year 1. Let's get through year 1 before moving onto the level 200 projects please.
    Half of us make our own cables, as we can customize the length, and it's cheaper. You don't have to "rewire" one necessarly. If you built your controller (being Renard, I'm assuming yes) this is the easy part. It just can be confusing.

    The fact you mention that your PC doesn't have a serial port means you need to get an adapter. I'd recomend just getting a USB->RS485 for the Renard. Get one of those DB9->RJ45 converters and connect that up the way you need. Then you can use any cat5 cable you have to connect the renards without "rewiring". Plus, you can put your first controller 4000 feet away from your PC!

    If you think it's confusing to you now check out the link below: (every possible way to connect renard)
    Adapter and DB9->RJ45 wiring - Renard Data Cables - doityourselfchristmas.com

    The pictures near the bottom should help a bit.
    Just get a Hexin USB to RS485 adapter - HXSP-2108F USB 2.0 To RS-485 Converter (amazon or ebay are good places to look)
    Then a DB9 to RJ45 - For only $0.52 each when QTY 50+ purchased - DB9F/RJ-45,Modular Adaptor | Modular Adaptors

    Wire the DB9 to RJ45 using that wiki page and you can use ANY cat5 cable.
    2014: Lights - 75,000; Channels - 500 Renard AC, 75 Renard DC, 10,000 Pixels; Vixen 3.0

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    Registered User ggusta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Renard SS series of DIY controllers

    Quote Originally Posted by Samj435 View Post
    This is true. The cable may be the same, but the protocol is completely different. You may even cause harm by connecting them together in that fashion.
    Ok, Thanks for the confirmation, that is helpful. I didn't think he was wrong, but just need to be positive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Samj435 View Post
    Half of us make our own cables, as we can customize the length, and it's cheaper. You don't have to "rewire" one necessarly. If you built your controller (being Renard, I'm assuming yes) this is the easy part. It just can be confusing.
    I most likely will be there one day, but like I said, not this year. And no, we had every intention of building these - actually look forward to it- but these 2 sort of 'fell in our lap' already made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samj435 View Post
    The fact you mention that your PC doesn't have a serial port means you need to get an adapter. I'd recomend just getting a USB->RS485 for the Renard. Get one of those DB9->RJ45 converters and connect that up the way you need. Then you can use any cat5 cable you have to connect the renards without "rewiring". Plus, you can put your first controller 4000 feet away from your PC!

    If you think it's confusing to you now check out the link below: (every possible way to connect renard)
    Adapter and DB9->RJ45 wiring - Renard Data Cables - doityourselfchristmas.com

    The pictures near the bottom should help a bit.
    Just get a Hexin USB to RS485 adapter - HXSP-2108F USB 2.0 To RS-485 Converter (amazon or ebay are good places to look)
    Then a DB9 to RJ45 - For only $0.52 each when QTY 50+ purchased - DB9F/RJ-45,Modular Adaptor | Modular Adaptors

    Wire the DB9 to RJ45 using that wiki page and you can use ANY cat5 cable.
    OK so I am still baffled as to why that guy posted that thread it sems what he was doing was pointless, maybe I shouldn't even try to figure out his deal because it's just confusing me, apparently. So I need the usb>db9 and then the db9>rj45 modular adaptor and plug the cat5 into the socket and let the fun begin?

    I think the thread from diyc just flipped me out because at this stage it doesn't take much. I went thru the same thing before I built the mega tree. Everything is mysterious and complicated sounding and then you build the flipping thing and it's like, you gotta be kidding me, I built legos that were harder than that. Now I go onto forums and set other people straight who are thinking about building them (like people who intend to do it with no guy wires whatsoever).
    Clayton NC, Gregg Gusta & Son Ben, Was converting to LED lights gave up, went back to incan!! not a single pixel in sight!
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    Registered User Samj435's Avatar
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    Default Re: Renard SS series of DIY controllers

    If you look through that wiki page, there is nothing short of 23,430,323 ways to wire this stuff together. With E1.31 that's adding yet another layer of control ontop of the serial bus. The problem is everyone has a seperate way of "doing it right". Each will share their way as being "the only way". I just recomend the USB to serial with that adapter as the only thing you have to worry about wiring is the adapter. It's 4 solder points. If you don't want to solder, you just cut the end off a cat5 cable, strip the wires and connect them to the breakout board that comes with the adapter. It's very painless and easy this way.

    I'm honestly surprised that there haven't been some sold on DIYC as people are moving to E1.31 bridges and abandoning the older stuff.

    Once you have it all connected, just like your megatree, you will sit and be baffled at how easy it really is and how complicated some people like to make things.
    2014: Lights - 75,000; Channels - 500 Renard AC, 75 Renard DC, 10,000 Pixels; Vixen 3.0

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    Registered User ggusta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Renard SS series of DIY controllers

    Quote Originally Posted by Samj435 View Post
    If you look through that wiki page, there is nothing short of 23,430,323 ways to wire this stuff together. With E1.31 that's adding yet another layer of control ontop of the serial bus.
    To the wikipedia, Robin! ....utterly clueless newbie.... smh...

    Quote Originally Posted by Samj435 View Post
    The problem is everyone has a seperate way of "doing it right". Each will share their way as being "the only way". I just recomend the USB to serial with that adapter as the only thing you have to worry about wiring is the adapter. It's 4 solder points. If you don't want to solder, you just cut the end off a cat5 cable, strip the wires and connect them to the breakout board that comes with the adapter. It's very painless and easy this way.

    I'm honestly surprised that there haven't been some sold on DIYC as people are moving to E1.31 bridges and abandoning the older stuff.

    Once you have it all connected, just like your megatree, you will sit and be baffled at how easy it really is and how complicated some people like to make things.
    OK, think I am off the ledge for now.

    rant alert.....As a person who has been through literally, about 5 careers, and that's a very conservative estimate, I have worked since I was 12, and has trained an awful lot of people, I can tell you I have been the ignorant one and worked with the ignorant ones (we're all ignorant at one level or another) and there's just no substitute for showing someone something, letting them do it, showing them again, watching them again. The vast VAST majority of us are very visual, hands-on learners. What's amazing to me is that with a little bit of hands on, how far people can go without any hands on afterwards. It's all so scary when you are ignorant, someone shows you how to rewire a connector or solder a board and it's like, duh, who can't do this? Same thing with the megatree.
    Clayton NC, Gregg Gusta & Son Ben, Was converting to LED lights gave up, went back to incan!! not a single pixel in sight!
    Like us on facebook at https://www.facebook.com/gustafamilychristmas

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