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Thread: making sure

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    Senior Member rooster423's Avatar
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    Default making sure

    I have 4 rock speakers I bought last year. The instructions said to use 14awg to wire speakers up with, but the sound volume was extremely low. I had the speakers hooked up to a Samsung HW-D7000 AV receiver. can anybody help me to find out why the volume is low when playing.

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    Havin fun ! kidcole's Avatar
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    Default Re: making sure

    From the description there is not much to go on. But the input to the receiver might be really low. There is quite an impedence mismatch between the output of a laptop and the input to a receiver. You may be losing is all right there. You might need a small mixer to bridge them. You can my mixer to see if it helps.

    The other advantage of a mixer is if you are also driving an FM transmitter. A correct use of the mixer would have a fix lower output driving the FM transmitter while at the same time you are varying the output driving the speakers. FM transmitters don't like a real hot signal input and they will actually broadcast less distance when that happens. But the line signal into the Samsung receiver might need to be much stronger. The mixer will take care of all that for you, with the right hookup ..
    Thanks,

    Denny Cole
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/Cole...ristmasLights/

    Back to Work <unretired> so I went Static in 2017. Planning xLights when I retire <again>. Maybe 2019 ?

    Falcon - 3 F16V3 & 1 PiCap, Sandevices - 2 E681 & 4 E6804, 288 Channels Lynx Express, 108 Channels DC DMX,
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    Senior Member rooster423's Avatar
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    Default Re: making sure

    Denny, what kind of mixer are you talking about? i'm a little confused

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    Havin fun ! kidcole's Avatar
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    Default Re: making sure

    Quote Originally Posted by rooster423 View Post
    Denny, what kind of mixer are you talking about? i'm a little confused
    An audio mixer. The primary benefit is the impedance matching from the laptop to the audio amp (or receiver input). The other big benefit is being able to adjust the signal strength up and down to the speakers without varying the signal to the FM transmitter.

    here is an example

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Behringer-EU...item2ecadf67b2

    This one is larger than the one I use but the price is amazing if it stays in the $50 range. There are lot of smaller mixers tho. The important feature is to have a TAPE OUT.

    To use the mixer, your laptop is plugged into one of the channel inputs. Then you set the laptop volume to something not too high .. Maybe about 5 or 6 out of 10. You can vary the tone settings if you want. The Tape Out means the signal is fixed and does not go up and down as you change the channel's volume control. So that tape out gets wired to the input of you FM transmitter. The main output gets wired to the speaker amp input, or in your case the receiver input. Now the FM transmitter volume only changes when you change the laptop volume. But you can make the speakers go up and down from nothing to very loud with the channel slider volume control.

    With this mixer setup, even when the channel volume control is completely off, the tape out to the FM transmitter is still at the volume set from the laptop. As I look at this mixer, it also has a gain control on the channel's input. So that gain control can also trim down some of the signal from your laptop. But in your case you would want to use the trim very little. Instead try to keep the laptop's volume control down a bit ..

    I hope this makes sense .. If not, I can show you when we get a chance to meet...
    Last edited by kidcole; 10-08-2013 at 04:54 PM.
    Thanks,

    Denny Cole
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/Cole...ristmasLights/

    Back to Work <unretired> so I went Static in 2017. Planning xLights when I retire <again>. Maybe 2019 ?

    Falcon - 3 F16V3 & 1 PiCap, Sandevices - 2 E681 & 4 E6804, 288 Channels Lynx Express, 108 Channels DC DMX,
    10' Pixel MegaTree, CoroFlakes w/Pixel Modules, Pixel RBLs, 2 Pixel Matrix 16x25, 10" RGB Ornaments, 7x230 Pixel Icicle Matrix,
    Classic 20' AC Megatree, TIR Destiny RGB Spots, RGB Blowmolds, Wireframes, and Inflatables with External Light Control

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    Senior Member rooster423's Avatar
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    Default Re: making sure

    thanks Denny.

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    Official Lurker mrlightmadness's Avatar
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    Default Re: making sure

    Quote Originally Posted by rooster423 View Post
    I have 4 rock speakers I bought last year. The instructions said to use 14awg to wire speakers up with, but the sound volume was extremely low. I had the speakers hooked up to a Samsung HW-D7000 AV receiver. can anybody help me to find out why the volume is low when playing.
    need a little more info. how far did you have to run the speaker wire? 14awg is ok but at a long distance might need to step it up to 12awg. also how did you connect the 4 speakers to the receiver? are the speakers 8ohm speakers? did you ave them wired in series or parallel? reason why i ask is this receiver looks to be rated for 120 watts in stereo at 4ohms. if you have 8ohm speakers 2 on each side and then you wired them in series you now have only a 16ohm load which means you will have about 1/4th the power.


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    Pixel Jedi caniac's Avatar
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    Default Re: making sure

    after talking to an electrician a year or so back he had me go with the same type of wire they use to put in low voltage landscaping lights. has worked great ever since.

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    Professional Net Lurker Jack Stevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: making sure

    Impedance matching is important. Wiring speakers in parallel will halve the impedance. Wiring in series will double the impedance.

    But....have you tried them with a short piece of wire close tot he amp? Just curious if there's another issue. I'm not using rock speakers but I am using exterior speakers, and they take a bit of oomph to drive. I tried to do it with a standard "boom box" that was quite loud on its internal speakers, but barely audible running through the exterior speakers. A quick test with a short piece of wire, and maybe some indoor stereo speakers will tell you what you have to concentrate on to get the sound you want.

    The first couple of years I ended up using a Karaoke amp I picked up off eBay, since using the boom box as a radio just playing what it picked up off the FM transmitter didn't work. That amp died (I think it needs new power supply filter caps from the sound of it) and I lucked into a couple of PBX telephone 30 watt PA amps at the local Habitat For Humanity ReStore for $5 each. They have a lot of impedance choices coming out, plus mixers going in. Also important to me, since I run music 24x7 through the transmitter, no power switch, so I can run them on a timer to have the speakers only working during "show time." Why two amps? They're mono; I play it outside stereo, one amp per channel.

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    Senior Member rooster423's Avatar
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    Default Re: making sure

    -100_0938.jpg-100_0936.jpg

    these are some pics I took of the receiver and how I have it hooked up to the speakers.
    Denny I also got the mixer from ebay that had linked to I may need some help on how to get this hooked up.

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    Havin fun ! kidcole's Avatar
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    Default Re: making sure

    Quote Originally Posted by rooster423 View Post
    -100_0938.jpg-100_0936.jpg

    these are some pics I took of the receiver and how I have it hooked up to the speakers.
    Denny I also got the mixer from ebay that had linked to I may need some help on how to get this hooked up.
    Very good. You will need some 1/4" to RCA adapters. I'll dig through the specs to see which adapters you will need, and let you know. I assume you already have the cable from your laptop audio jack into the receiver. That is probably a stereo 1/8" male to two RCA males (pls confirm) .. Also let me know what type of jacks your FM transmitter uses.
    Thanks,

    Denny Cole
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/Cole...ristmasLights/

    Back to Work <unretired> so I went Static in 2017. Planning xLights when I retire <again>. Maybe 2019 ?

    Falcon - 3 F16V3 & 1 PiCap, Sandevices - 2 E681 & 4 E6804, 288 Channels Lynx Express, 108 Channels DC DMX,
    10' Pixel MegaTree, CoroFlakes w/Pixel Modules, Pixel RBLs, 2 Pixel Matrix 16x25, 10" RGB Ornaments, 7x230 Pixel Icicle Matrix,
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    Havin fun ! kidcole's Avatar
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    Default Re: making sure

    This is a real interesting mixer. Since it has the Aux 3/4 buss on it, you can use that for the FM instead of Tape Out. It will let you experiment quickly for the optimum FM signal level. And the main out will control the signal to the audio amp ..

    You will need at least 6 1/4" to RCA and it's a better deal to buy 10 and have spares. I suggest you order one of these:

    Straight

    SEISMIC Audio 10 Pack RCA Female to 1 4" TS Male Adapters Audio Cable Converters | eBay

    Angled

    SEISMIC Audio 10 Pack of RCA Female to 1 4" TS Right Angle Male Adapter | eBay

    It does not matter which kind you get. But the angled are sometimes better for long term wear on your molded RCA cables.

    You will also need two XLR to RCA adapters for the main outputs.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-High-Qu...item5d42afa9f8

    This 5 pack was only $2 more than a two pack. Never hurts to have spares. I could use a couple for my adapter toolbox ..
    Thanks,

    Denny Cole
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/Cole...ristmasLights/

    Back to Work <unretired> so I went Static in 2017. Planning xLights when I retire <again>. Maybe 2019 ?

    Falcon - 3 F16V3 & 1 PiCap, Sandevices - 2 E681 & 4 E6804, 288 Channels Lynx Express, 108 Channels DC DMX,
    10' Pixel MegaTree, CoroFlakes w/Pixel Modules, Pixel RBLs, 2 Pixel Matrix 16x25, 10" RGB Ornaments, 7x230 Pixel Icicle Matrix,
    Classic 20' AC Megatree, TIR Destiny RGB Spots, RGB Blowmolds, Wireframes, and Inflatables with External Light Control

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    Havin fun ! kidcole's Avatar
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    Default Re: making sure

    I received a request for help from Ross @koi_plumber in South Carolina, with setting up his Behringer 802 mixer. And I found that Behringer's "Tape Out" is not wired directly off their main left and right busses .. as I thought from my description below. But after several passes at studying their internal Block Diagram, they have a clever way of doing the traditional TAPE OUT function through their CTRL Room output wiring. But it is not the default configuration .. so I will be happy to provide help with the switch settings, and also how to balance the input to your FM transmitters.

    Scott - @rooster423 - purchased a more advanced Behringer UB1204 Pro mixer that includes a secondary AUX 3/4 bus for each channel input. So his will be a little simpler by using the Aux buss for the FM and the main mix outputs for the amp that drives the yard speakers. It will still be a small challenge to get it all set up correctly and balanced .. and to make sure it does not change. Accidentally pushing some of the small buttons on these small mixers can be a nightmare to figure out what happened - particularly if something drops on it and now things are not working correctly.

    Some mixers have a true independent Tape Out from the left and right busses .. such as the little Audio Technica mixer that I use. Mine does not have any tone controls, which would be nice to have sometimes. But I've not needed it. In most cases for our Christmas setups, we will just leave the tone set in the middle (called unity gain). Because it is important not to "color" the sound going to your FM transmitter. People can do that in their own car stereo systems instead. Here's mine:

    Audio Technica AM150 Stereo Mixer Two Channel DJ Stereo | eBay

    These Audio Technica mixers were made about 10 or 12 years ago. DJ's liked these for small portable applications because they have a true fixed tape-out function that is named REC, plus the Master that is name OUT. Plus a Cross fader (but you won't use it for the Christmas setup). You can nab the AM150s on eBay between $30 and $40 including shipping cost. Sometimes they go for more but I would not pay it. There will always be another one. Just try not to be in a hurry and then you won't get ripped off on eBay. Or if you are going to spend more then at least get something with more functions for the money ..
    Thanks,

    Denny Cole
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/Cole...ristmasLights/

    Back to Work <unretired> so I went Static in 2017. Planning xLights when I retire <again>. Maybe 2019 ?

    Falcon - 3 F16V3 & 1 PiCap, Sandevices - 2 E681 & 4 E6804, 288 Channels Lynx Express, 108 Channels DC DMX,
    10' Pixel MegaTree, CoroFlakes w/Pixel Modules, Pixel RBLs, 2 Pixel Matrix 16x25, 10" RGB Ornaments, 7x230 Pixel Icicle Matrix,
    Classic 20' AC Megatree, TIR Destiny RGB Spots, RGB Blowmolds, Wireframes, and Inflatables with External Light Control

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