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Thread: lor s 3

  1. #31
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    Default Re: lor s 3

    Quote Originally Posted by kidcole View Post
    Good info. LOR must be off to a better start with S3 than it was with S2. When I joined in 2009 I had to make several software updates along with controller flashing, just in my first year. Then last year there were several also .. but the firmware was finally stable. I was expecting similar with S3. It would be nice if S3 does better. Looking forward to it ..
    S2 was released in 2008. There were 20 something releases, some real quick with a bug fix, but most with new enhancements, and gosh, there were a lot of enhancements and new features added to S2 during it's almost 3 year life.

    I have never known of any stability issues with any of the firmware.

    Firmware updates are needed to keep the controllers up to date and able to take advantage of the new features and enhancements in the software.

    Just as the next firmware release for Gen 2 controllers will give them some of the features that are included with the Gen 3 hardware, and to take advantage of the enhancements in the S3 software.
    (Dimming curves)

    I love to see new firmware releases. It means my controllers can be upgraded at no cost to me to the latest and greateast. The alternative would mean being stuck with obsolete hardware.
    John (The Mascot)
    www.tennholidays.com

    480 LOR Channels + 2 CCR + 8 Mighty Minis + 10 Rainbow Floods+ 1 vdrive and vflood, Lynx Express and over 40,000 LEDs

  2. #32
    This space for rent. Al in Raleigh's Avatar
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    Default Re: lor s 3

    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Just keeping to the facts
    In post 22, Bob said, "If the early version is LOR 2, then depending upon exactly what the old version is, what the new version is, and what features were used in the save file, it may or may not successfully load at all, and even if it loads it may not support all of the functionality from the sequence, and could possibly think that it understands something that it actually misunderstands."

    I would interpret that as not being the same data file.

  3. #33
    Havin fun ! kidcole's Avatar
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    Default Re: lor s 3

    Interesting debate. And very good to bring out the good facts along with the risks. I REALLY like the Channel groups and I'm drawn to use them. It also seems to me that LOR has built a better development team with their acquisition last year. I have not upgraded yet, but I am seriously considering it. When I played with LOR 3.0 on Rob's PC, I liked it. It is unfortunate that LOR didn't create the ability for a "Save As" to LOR 2 which would strip out the incompatible data but preserve the basic S2 working data.

    Given what I've seen so far, I am still seriously considering making the move. I have to DJ a wedding in Hilton Head this weekend .. so I'll think about it a little longer.
    Thanks,

    Denny Cole
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/Cole...ristmasLights/

    Back to Work <unretired> so I went Static in 2017. Planning xLights when I retire <again>. Maybe 2019 ?

    Falcon - 3 F16V3 & 1 PiCap, Sandevices - 2 E681 & 4 E6804, 288 Channels Lynx Express, 108 Channels DC DMX,
    10' Pixel MegaTree, CoroFlakes w/Pixel Modules, Pixel RBLs, 2 Pixel Matrix 16x25, 10" RGB Ornaments, 7x230 Pixel Icicle Matrix,
    Classic 20' AC Megatree, TIR Destiny RGB Spots, RGB Blowmolds, Wireframes, and Inflatables with External Light Control

  4. #34
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    Default Re: lor s 3

    Quote Originally Posted by Al in Raleigh View Post
    In post 22, Bob said, "If the early version is LOR 2, then depending upon exactly what the old version is, what the new version is, and what features were used in the save file, it may or may not successfully load at all, and even if it loads it may not support all of the functionality from the sequence, and could possibly think that it understands something that it actually misunderstands."

    I would interpret that as not being the same data file.
    Had some time to do some tests:

    Test 1:
    Sequence created in S3 3.0.02. (Released 10/14/11) Did NOT use any new features from S3
    Loaded in S2 2.9.4. (Released 12/01/10) Worked Perfect!

    TEST 2:
    Same S3 sequence )that was compatible in S2 2.9.4) loaded in S2 2.8.6 (released 8/03/10)
    Freeform Grid would not display.
    Channel color buttons would not display
    Choked on Collasped RGB channels, opened RGB channels (back in S3) just using as separate individual channels, (Resaved in S3) it worked.

    TEST 3:
    Same S3 sequence loaded in S2 2.7.4 (released 2/26/10).
    Worked except for items noted in Test 2

    Test 4:
    Same S3 sequence loaded in S2 2.5.2 (released 10/16/09)
    Same results as in Test 2 but worked.

    Test 5:
    Same S3 sequence loaded in S2 2.4.08 (released 9/14/09)
    Crashed due to CCRs in the sequence, 2.4.08 woild not recognize circuit IDs greater then 16, and the CCR used circuit IDs up to 157.

    This tells me that the data file structure is the same.

    A sequence created in S3 that did not use any of the new S3 features works in any S2 version released in the last 14 months, and past 22 months with a modification of the sequence. (sequence modifications changed and saved in S3)

    As I kept going backwards to older versions of S2, there were commands that were not supported in earlier S2 versions that were introduced in the later S2 versions. Hence the reason Bob worded his comments as he did, otherwise someone might think they could still use an S3 sequence in S2 2.0.2 from 2008, even an S2 2.9.4 sequence would crash)

    My conclusion, no need to worry about upgrading to S3, all S2 sequences will load and work in S3. (because the file structure is the same)

    Sequences created in S3 that did not use any of the S3 new features, will work in S2 versions at least as old as 2.4.8 from 9-14-09, (note 2.4.8 did not have CCR support). I did not test with any S2 verisions prior to 2.4.8 since I doubt anyone is still using them (might be wrong, cause some people are still using S1)

    Just my opinion and what some real world tests have shown to me.
    John (The Mascot)
    www.tennholidays.com

    480 LOR Channels + 2 CCR + 8 Mighty Minis + 10 Rainbow Floods+ 1 vdrive and vflood, Lynx Express and over 40,000 LEDs

  5. #35
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    Default Re: lor s 3

    Quote Originally Posted by kidcole View Post
    It is unfortunate that LOR didn't create the ability for a "Save As" to LOR 2 which would strip out the incompatible data but preserve the basic S2 working data.
    Interesting comment. I don't, in my opinion, see a need for that.

    When S2 was introduced, there was ZERO backwards compatibilty with S1.

    Most of the 20 something versions of S2 contained some enhancements that were not compatible with previous S2 versions.

    I never saw a single request for a "save as S2 previous ver xx" that would strip out any incompatible S2 commands in order to, say "make a sequence that was created in S2 ver 2.9.4 in order for it to be backwards compatible with S2 ver 2.5.2"

    S3 continues this path.

    The "Sequence Editor engine" did not change from S2 to S3, it was only enhanced with new capabilities. Just as the previous 20 something versions of S2 contained enhanced capabilities, some of which were not compatible with the previous S2 version.

    But why go backwards? Progress moves forward, in my opinion.

    Anyone that purchased S2 within the past 12 months get a free upgrade to S3. Otherwise it's only $ 29.xx. I would glady pay the $29 for just one of the the new S3 features, and when all the new features are considered, the $29 is one heck of a bargain.

    Plus, support and enhancements for S2 has ceased, as S3 is the current supported software and all future enhancements will be for S3.


    Just my opinions.
    John (The Mascot)
    www.tennholidays.com

    480 LOR Channels + 2 CCR + 8 Mighty Minis + 10 Rainbow Floods+ 1 vdrive and vflood, Lynx Express and over 40,000 LEDs

  6. #36
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    Default Re: lor s 3

    Quote Originally Posted by kidcole View Post
    It also seems to me that LOR has built a better development team with their acquisition last year.
    The only acquistion that LOR made last year was the rights to the Super Star Editor from Bryan. Bryan still sits whereever in Texas and only works on the Super Star Editor. Has no other involment with S3 development. The Super Star Editor is a separate optional cost module.

    Mike only works on the NEW Visualizer module. Use of it is optional but is included at no cost in the S3 software.
    Mike sits whereever he sits (on the East Coast somewhere, I'm guessing Florida, based on something he said in chat one night- a current weather statement) and the Visualizer is his "baby".

    Bob is still the lead developer for the S3 Sequence Editor, Show Editor, Simple Show Builder, Schedule Editor, Verifier, Hardware Utility, and Servo Dog Utility modules. He has to cordinate the activities of Bryan and Mike to ensure that their modules are compatible with all the other S3 program modules.

    And in addition you have the developers of firmware enhancements for the different LOR controllers to enable them to take advantage of the new software enhancements.

    Then there are the guys that are constantly working on future hardware stuff designs, which will require the interaction with the hardware firmware as well as the software developers during testing and prior to release.
    John (The Mascot)
    www.tennholidays.com

    480 LOR Channels + 2 CCR + 8 Mighty Minis + 10 Rainbow Floods+ 1 vdrive and vflood, Lynx Express and over 40,000 LEDs

  7. #37
    Havin fun ! kidcole's Avatar
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    Default Re: lor s 3

    Great tests. I appreciate the information. I hope all 2.0 users would move to 2.9.4. It's a nice release with all the 2.0 feature enhancements and had the most bug fixes in it !

    I thought I explained the reason for having a "Save As" to a lower version ... ? It is to allow me to share some of my sequences and timing work with guys who mostly have 2.94 for now. This is mostly an issue for this year as I would expect more people will be 3.0 by next year.

    I mostly want to use the new Channel Groups feature to make the sequencing a lot easier to navigate. I am curious if using Channel Groups would make the files incompatible with 2.9.4 ?
    Thanks,

    Denny Cole
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/Cole...ristmasLights/

    Back to Work <unretired> so I went Static in 2017. Planning xLights when I retire <again>. Maybe 2019 ?

    Falcon - 3 F16V3 & 1 PiCap, Sandevices - 2 E681 & 4 E6804, 288 Channels Lynx Express, 108 Channels DC DMX,
    10' Pixel MegaTree, CoroFlakes w/Pixel Modules, Pixel RBLs, 2 Pixel Matrix 16x25, 10" RGB Ornaments, 7x230 Pixel Icicle Matrix,
    Classic 20' AC Megatree, TIR Destiny RGB Spots, RGB Blowmolds, Wireframes, and Inflatables with External Light Control

  8. #38
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    Default Re: lor s 3

    Quote Originally Posted by kidcole View Post
    Great tests. I appreciate the information. I hope all 2.0 users would move to 2.9.4. It's a nice release with all the 2.0 feature enhancements and had the most bug fixes in it !

    I would hope they would all move to 3.0.2, it sure would make life easier as we try to provide assiastance on the LOR support forums, as the 20 something versions of S2 also had different capabilities and features not supported in earlier versions. Then they want to know why a sequence someone shared with them won't work. Heck, some people are still using 1.15 and trying to use 2.x.x shared sequences.

    I thought I explained the reason for having a "Save As" to a lower version ... ? It is to allow me to share some of my sequences and timing work with guys who mostly have 2.94 for now. This is mostly an issue for this year as I would expect more people will be 3.0 by next year.

    It would have been a very poor business decision on LORs part to try to create another special software to do a backwards "save as 2.x.x". It would require that the "special software" would have to read the S3 sequence, try to apply artificial intelligence to read and interperte what you intended the sequence to do, then try rewrite all the files back in a software version that never had the capabilities to begin with.

    Why in the the world would the guys want to stay with "old" software. If they purchased the software in the last year, then the upgrade to 3.0.2 is FREE. (otherwise only $29.xx)

    They are penalizing themselves, and therefore penalizing and preventing you from taking advantage of all the wonderful new capabilites of S3 if they expect you to share your work with them.


    I mostly want to use the new Channel Groups feature to make the sequencing a lot easier to navigate. I am curious if using Channel Groups would make the files incompatible with 2.9.4 ?
    As I stated, in my opinion, the Channel Groups is one of the very best powerful enhancements to S3. A super time saver while creating and editing sequences. Well worth the upgrade.

    But...... because Channel Groups does have such a powerful effect on so many different parts of the Sequence Editor, and affect so many different parts of the program, S2 ver 2.9.4 cannot read the commands.

    Guess that gives you three choices:

    1. Go ahead and upgrade and encourage your friends to also upgrade (most likely for free) so they can take advantage of your hard work in their displays.

    2. Upgrade and create two versions of every sequence you do, one for you to give to your friends that don't use any of the new S3 features, and one for yourself taking advantage of all the new time saving capabilities in S3. (hmm, don't guess it would save you any time if you have to create each sequence twice, in order to have a sequence to give away)

    3. Do nothing and penalize yourself by denying yourself the advantages of S3 software, just so your friends can enjoy your work.

    Just my opinions

    John (The Mascot)
    www.tennholidays.com

    480 LOR Channels + 2 CCR + 8 Mighty Minis + 10 Rainbow Floods+ 1 vdrive and vflood, Lynx Express and over 40,000 LEDs

  9. #39
    Senior Member mpurser's Avatar
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    Default Re: lor s 3

    Denny i went to s3 and i love it altho im not into rgb pixals ccb or ccr yet i like the changes thay have made so far

  10. #40
    Space rented from Al SWood's Avatar
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    Default Re: lor s 3

    I agree with John on number 2. That's what I did. S3 is so much better I haven't even looked back at 2.94.
    Shannon Wood
    XLights 4 User with 40,000 channels and 60,000 lights.
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  11. #41
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    Default Re: lor s 3

    Now you can upgrade to 3.1.0.

    A complete list of the changes is in this thread.

    http://www.christmascarolina.com/for...3.1.0-Released
    John (The Mascot)
    www.tennholidays.com

    480 LOR Channels + 2 CCR + 8 Mighty Minis + 10 Rainbow Floods+ 1 vdrive and vflood, Lynx Express and over 40,000 LEDs
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